Episode 73 – New Year Special
The M-Team reviews the gaming year of 2008 and predicts the future in MMO gaming with startling acumen.
00:00:00 Introductions
00:04:52 What We’re Playing
00:23:17 Mail Bag
00:34:54 The Week in Gaming
00:58:12 2008/2009 Blowout!
01:45:05 End
TWiG
Police Arrest Teen After Alleged Online Suicide Threat
Worlds.com Files Patent Dispute Against NcSoft
CCP Aims to Extend EvE Online to iPhone / Mobile phones
Turbine looks like it’s going to be heading into the micro transaction fray
EvE Player Scammed for $19,000
A look back at Mark’s 2008 Predictions
Jason’s Hope and Dreams for 2009 and Beyond…
Musical Interludes:
(Mark resolves to make these even more eclectic and bizzare this year.)
01 – Frank Gambale – Humid Beings
02 – Angels and Agony – Tramfrau (Mix)
03 – Armaggedon – Masturbate on the Altar of God
04 – Blue Oyster CUlt – Veteran of the Psychic Wars
05 – Busta Rhymes – What’s it gonna be?
06 – Cacaphony – The Ninja
07 – Ministry – Vex and Siolence
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Good show guys. Just wanted to make a quick correction though … I actually don’t play anything but EVE, and probably won’t play anything else until something very different comes along. So you DO have someone that plays something other than WAR, WoW, or LOTRO.
Hey guys, great show. I just wanted to comment something about RMT. One way you can look at RMT, is that companies provide a service, or an amusement part experience. Like a Golf Course. And that buying goods with real money is like the practice of buying a better set of golf clubs. Not all about these games is the gear, a lot of it has to do with your own skill. But that being said, better clubs will help a player do better. But it’s partly about the buyer trying to trade time with cash. He could just learn to play better, but buying better clubs is going to increase his performance as well.
It’s not a perfect analogy but, that’s how it’s been put to me in the past and it’s a reasonable comparison.
In general, it’s also fighting an uphill battle. Companies can try to fight the wave of RMT, or they can try to embrace it. Players are going to be pissed, but it’s better for the company to manage RMT since they are already paying for it in customer support calls over shady dealings that go on now where customers get ripped off by buying from untrustworthy sources.
FYI, after cries from the community about the Turbine RMT announcement, a rep said that the RMT was for the console MMO they’ve been working on (another one for you Jason).
I don’t care. RMT’s are always going to piss me off. It just makes me sick that MMO companies are bowing down and starting to put it in their game. It’s just a fucking pussing thing to due that completely ruins the spirit of the game.
Imagine you were playing D&D with a group of friends. You and your buddies have spent weeks working up your characters and developing them. Then someone comes in and passes the DM $50 and he all of a sudden gives their character extra levels, better equipment, etc. That going to piss you off? Would me …
If a company starts a MMORPG straight from the start as an RMT game, then great. If a company starts a MMORPG as a subscription base, then years later decides to start trying to bilk people out of extra money on RMT’s, then they’re just being greedy twats.
I’ve already made this promise on my blog. Any of the games that go RMT, not only will I quit, but I will never play them or any of their successors. EVER. RMT is just against the spirit of the games IMO. If they’re going to start it, then fuck ‘em, I’m out. End of story. If that means I never play another MMORPG again, then so be it. But if only one still exists, that will be the game I play.
@Julien
Yeah, we recorded this episode before Turbine clarified what was going on with that.
Nerrollus I really do not think that you will stop playing MMORPG’s if they all have RMT. It depends on how they do the RMT and what they allow you to buy that will effect that decision I bet.
I personally do not understand everyone’s strong dislike of RMT, what about it makes you upset? Is there any form of RMT that you would not care about? I think people think RMT and think that only the best equipment and top levels would be available RMT, which would make me not want to play either.
Everytime I email it seems that ya’ll have a hard time reading the email submissions, any recomendations for mp3 software to record with in the future?
Think what you want, but I’ve already made my decision and I’ll stick with it. Any game that goes RMT after launch with a subscription base and I’m done with it for good.
If a game wants to launch free to play with an RMT system, then great. They’ve designed the game with that business model and best of luck to them. Will I play it? More than likely not. I just don’t like RMT games … But the games that add RMT in later just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It makes the company seem greedy or like they’re tanking and just trying to grab as much money as they can before going down the drain.
There’s not any kind of RMT that I really like unless it’s things like server moves, name changes, etc. Those requires human intervention from what I can tell, so they need to cover the cost. They also need to use it to discourage people from jumping servers or changing their names on a whim.
The bullshit that Sony is doing is just unacceptable to me. They’re not selling high end items or anything that I’ve seen, but they are selling things like XP bonus potions. You might as well just start selling levels if that’s the case. The games require time investments and a little dedication from the players. If they start trading time for money, then it just seems like it’s defeating the spirit of the game and giving an advantage to people with larger wallets rather than the loyal players that have worked their way up as the game was intended. Same for when a company starts selling weapons and armor. What’s the point in doing dungeon crawls and acquiring items when I can spend $2.99 and get them same sword of uberness? It defeats the spirit of the game. What’s the point in playing if you’re going to just buy your way through the game?
I can’t understand why the hell people bot their way up through the levels instead of actually playing the game. Why the hell are you playing if you’re botting? If you think that it’s because the game doesn’t actually start until you reach max level, then there’s something seriously wrong with that picture. Either the developers have done a piss poor job designing the game, or the player is playing the game for the wrong reasons. These games aren’t Doom or Quake where you work your way through the game to beat it. These games are designed to provide the entertainment during the leveling up and playing through the story. They just add PvP and raiding on at the end so the players have something to flash their e-peen about once they cap out.
Thanks for including my thoughts on RMT. One thing players sometimes forget is that we don’t all play for the same goals or with the same motivations. Based on the comments some of the hosts are motivated by the accumulation of items and the quality of those items, and that’s all well and good. However, there are players who are there to play the content – see the heroes and villain, interact with other players, participate in a virtual economy, etc. None of that necessitates having gear better than what is required to do an instance or encounter. So they same way the dropped the DeathKnights into the game in blues, I don’t see a problem with offering similar quality gear for RMT. I don’t need the uber-goober sword of death. I just need enough to experience the content.
RMT is coming and I don’t think it’s a bad thing. It will upset players who are predominately motivated by the acquisition of items. But that is only a threat in a game where gear > than all, including skill. We should all want that equation to stop anyway. RMT works fine in Wizard101 because your gear CAN’T under any circumstances save your butt. RMT works in EVE Online for the very same reason. You can buy the best and you’ll lose it all in an instant if you don’t have the skills to back up the purchase.
I want to play more of those games. Where my understanding of my class, game mechanics, my opponent and strategy out weight the gear I’m wearing. I’m tired of gear > all where gear = grind your ass off for stuff that keeps getting replaced. In the 20 hours it might take to farm some item by repeating instances, I’m over that too, I could have done multiple instances, seen new places and have several NEW adventures versus seeing the same old dungeon trying to get my uber goober.
Dailies were when I was done with WOW. I’m not paying to log in and do homework. How they’ve sold this mechanic to the masses utterly UTTERLY, amazes me. Not to belabor the point, but I swear it boggles my mind that people log into a game to do dailies.
One man’s poison…grinding IS NOT entertainment in my dictionary.
Saylah
P.S. In case someone thinks you don’t have to do Dailies in WOW…
One of the reasons Dailies went in the game was to stop people from buying gold. Raiders were publicly admitting to buying gold because farming for it along side your attunements and materials for consumables took too much time, and that’s on top of your raiding schedule. Instead of fixing the WHY raiding cost so much (other than nerfing the alchemy profession) they gave you Dailies. Yeah right.
Everyone was impacted by the change even players that were happy with their financial standing because it flood the economy with gold. Now everything costs more and Blizzard has to create more gold-sinks so you can spend that gold. Anyone who doesn’t want to do Dailies basically gets priced out of the game. Let’s all remember this is a game and not supposed to be a second job.
Nero, if I were in that hypothetical D&D group, I’d be very very happy to have a new player up to speed, instead of hazing them with the level grind to catch up. I don’t care how he got there, if the game we play together is still fun. Heck, in MMO terminology, I’d even pay to get my friends up to speed on occasion.
The mindset that MMOs are all about “putting your time in” is absolutely boggling to me. I’m paying to play the darn things, not looking for another part time job. Also, as I’ve noted elsewhere, I play against or with other people to test my skill. If I just wanted to test my endurance or lack of a productive real life compared to the Joneses of an MMO world, I can find cheaper ways to do so.
I’m not a big fan of the game either, but I’m definately not for people being able to buy their way into a game. I personally don’t think there should be levels or classes in these games. So people can join their friends and have fun without having to grind it out. That away people can concentrate on the actual game and earning their items instead of having to grind them out or RMT things.
The way I look at it you’re not “putting your time in.” You’re playing a game … Why is that putting your time in? As I said in my previous post, if that’s the way you feel then you’re either playing the wrong kind of game, or the developers completely failed. It shouldn’t feel like a job. It should be an enjoyable adventure. “Putting your time in” as you put it, should be a good time that people want to do.
So you’re OK with testing your skill again people that have bought their characters and items given them and advantage vs you who “put your time in” and built your character up? Seems like cheating to me …
You can’t buy skill. If the game is a gear treadmill, it’s not about skill.
If someone buys their character in a well designed PvP setting, I don’t care. It’s like Counterstrike or TF2; how someone came by their copy of the game is utterly irrelevant; if they can play, that’s all I care about.
Guild Wars PvP has instant level cap players. They don’t ruin the game. You can buy PvP only content. It doesn’t invalidate other players’ skill.
No, you can’t buy skill, but you can buy enough gear, enchant, or what ever to make up for it.
Yeah and in guild wars when you instant you have just basic skills to use. You don’t get all the elites that you normally earn while playing the game.
Aye, GW kind of dropped the ball on that. What I’m talking about is an idealized design where player skill is the only factor to success. Gear and “skills” would be completely normalized.
…GW is the closest we have to that in the MMO world, but you’re right, it’s not perfect. Puzzle Pirates is also fairly close, but there are a few weapons for Swordfighting, Rumble and Drinking that are overpowered. A perfectly balanced PvP, completely ignoring gear, would be a great thing.
Wouldn’t that just be some console fighting game then?
Seems like that’s what your describing to me.