The guys bring news of WAR coming to Russia, a cell phone based MMO, a Wheel of Time MMO, and more.
00:00:00 Introduction
00:05:45 What We’re Playing
00:17:22 Mail Bag
00:30:05 The Week in Gaming
01:04:38 Blog-O-Steria (In Chromovision!)
01:31:48 Conclusion
TWiG
WAR is coming to Russia
Korean Cell Phone MMO Entering Beta Phase
Turn Left. Get key. Zork returns as a browser based MMO.
EA to Publish Red Eagle’s Wheel of Time MMO - Best. Take. Ever.
Funcom shutting down a ton of Age of Conan Servers
Cartoon Network Officially Launches Fusion Fall
Warning! Excessive use of Video Games May Lead to Aggressive Behavior.
The IRS May Push For Tax Compliance in Virtual Worlds
Crazy Asian Gamer Alert! Crazy Asian Gamer Alert!
Blog-O-Steria- Some Random Thoughts On Raiding, Grinding and Rewards
Fewer Heroes, MMOre Adventurers (via Tish, Tosh, Tesh)
Let’s Discuss RMT Some More (via Mystic Worlds)
Build Specific Loot (via Tobald)
Rewards (via Tobald)
Musical Interludes:
01 – Nightmares on Wax – Mission Venice
02 – Omni Trio – Astral Phase
03 – Roni Size – Heroes
04 – Mocky – Sweet Music
05 – Squarepusher – Don’t Go Plastic
06 – Scissor Sisters – Comfortably Numb
07 – Plaid – Scoobs in Columbia
08 – Yonderboi – Pink Solidism
09 – George Levin – I Got Somebody New
10 – Incognito – Jacob’s Ladder
11 – Worldless People – Minority in Terms of Thought
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Thanks for the mention, guys! I’m pretty much a noob when it comes to MMOs, only having seriously looked at them for the last six months or so. I’ve developed these opinions mostly through looking at how they work, along with some trials and tinkering. I’m not invested enough emotionally or economically (I’m no fan of subscriptions) to convince myself that I’m having fun in the rat race.
I actually do like the art direction and some of the lore of WoW, but the unholy synergy of the loot treadmill and the subscription model keep me from playing the game for more than a free trial once in a blue moon. It’s a pity, really, because while it’s easy to denigrate the game for being monumentally boneheaded, it’s also easy to ignore that they do bring a fair dose of fun to the table.
(And while Atlantica Online is on the table, let it be noted that they have their fair share of grinding, so it’s not just the sub model that causes the brain damage.)
Oh, and I’ll save you the sleuthing. I do listen to several New Age music artists, and have for over two decades. Further evidence that I’m not your typical MMO nut, perhaps. Now, as to whether or not my wife’s name is Connie, well, on that, you’re on your own.
@Tesh
I loved your work on Entertainment Tonight. Your wife is hot.
Thanks for listening.
I second Jason’s sentiments though it was your epic acting role as Klingon #2 in the rights of manhood for Worf that really resonated with me. Of course, your inspiring music is what really keeps me going each day. *worship*
You’d be surprised at how useful those pain sticks are, or just how cool Michael Dorn is without the forehead.
My wife *is* hot, thanks! And did you really think that I wouldn’t listen? Those of us in the entertainment industry love being talked about.
Great show guys, the whole Blog-o-steria over loot/gear/raiding was pretty interesting. I do agree with a lot of people over this whole bull-crap related to the whole gear grind thing. More recently, I’ve been moaning and groaning over Warhammer Online gear drops and the whole Armor Wards system they introduced.
Yup, I hate to burst your bubble guys but Warhammer Online has a bad PvE based Gear grind at the end game. Let’s not even talk about the whole Influence system in Open-RvR, and the phat lewt you can get there. Yet another Grind.
Yah, Warhammer Online has this crazy dungeon progression where you have to do Dungeon A, to get loot that makes you far less squishy for Dungeon B, which makes you far less squishy in Dungeon C. I say less squishy because it doesn’t prevent you from _entering_ the dungeon. But you take 200% damage from the mobs unless you have the The right gear. Go google up “Warhammer Armor Wards” to learn more. Look at the Herald post from October 24th. You’ll see what I mean.
It’s difficult to make a case that the treadmill is bad when so many players continue to gobble it up. Players who have had enough are in a fish out of water situation. Fighting against a sea of others willing to submit to some of the most horrific grinding mechanics I’ve seen in a long time, excluding the original hardcore gaming of something like EQ1. It can’t even be compared with that because that was a grind of skill and perseverance, where this is just mindless zombie grinding.
I think one of the reasons you’re getting the LOTRO and EVE crowd is that WOW has a huge assortment of podcasts out there devoted just to that game. LOTRO and EVE do not. I don’t know what’s up with the WAR crowd since there aren’t that many podcasts for WAR.
EVE’s most grueling grind is in skill training. However, since that’s done passively it’s not what you’d typically call a grind. Everything else is completely optional – literally everything. This leaves players doing only the aspects of the game they enjoy and if you’re enjoying the activity, you don’t consider it a grind. Regardless, grind-like activity exists but it’s not in the stringent linear progression model used in the other AAA titles.
I also hate to burst your bubble about WAR. I left after hitting the T4 brick wall. 3.5 levels to go and I bailed. My own behavior is partly to blame coupled with WAR’s inability to sustain the population witnessed in BETA, Preview and early release. T4 felt like a wasteland and horrific grind, and that’s coming from someone who solo grinds to level anyway. This was just on a different scale of mind-numbing because they implemented too many PQs and the mechanic requires a certain amount of players to be entertaining – doing all stages versus doing stage I until I wanted to shoot myself in the face. Scenarios were always fun and about the best thing in WAR. oRVR was much the same of hit and miss, running all over the place and hoping there’s a fight so you can get XP. My part of the blame was in burning myself out. I was leveling in fear of exactly what happened – I’d get behind the curve in my guild and get stuck in the dessert trying to level alone. Well, I have a busy life and I got behind the curve, found myself alone and just couldn’t slug it out. It started feeling like work and not a game.
As someone has already mentioned, what they’ve done with the end-game is just… I don’t even know what to say. It IS a PVE grind that is linked to required gear (content cock-block) which just stuns me that they would try to BS in a game advertised as PVP for the end-game. This is a rather poor choice but they caved in and added a gear treadmill to hold people off. Our guild got really quiet in game and in chat so I bailed. Not long after a guildie with three level 40s, that’s right 3 of them bailed on that end game. Mythic said level by PVE or RVR or combine. Mythic said they’d taken out the grind. Mythic said large scale RVR. They built the pieces but the assembly is faulty. I hope they are able to take corrective action. In time they’ll get it all sorted out but not on my dime. I’ll come back when it works the way they said it would.
Excuse the long comment. Great show and thanks for the mention. And like wow, I’m flattered that you’d like to have me join you in a chat and would. Just not sure how well I could hold my own against you three. Much testosterone floating around that chamber.
@Saylah
It’s been a little different experience for me with WAR since I haven’t necessarily been hit by the grind (gear or xp-wise)…yet.
The server that we’re playing on is still fairly active from what I’ve gathered. Even in the T1 zones there was a lot of oRvR action going on and it appears to be a good community of people. There was even a fairly well organized attempt at the Inevitable City the other night. Luckily, the forces of Order were pushed back before the zone fell.
We can only hope that it maintains and Mythic can figure out how to get more people involved without turning into another endgame gear grind. That’s the last thing the genre needs right now.
We always love to hear about the personal goings on in your gaming life and your take on the games you play. Trust me, the show could definitely use a female voice to kick us in the balls every once and awhile. Once we get our poop in a pile (we’re working on upgrading our equipment), you’re more than welcome to join us when you get a free night to rumble with da boys.
Been listening to that blogosteria sick-o-grind thing. Totally agree with the general conclusion. the MMOs are starting to look like more sort of real life – but with a better graphics (real life on drugs??). Get a job. Get paid. Get the BMW.
Jason, while we’re talking about new podcasts, do you need a new soundtrack?
I’ve had a rollicking good time with a series of posts on my blog, pulling commenters out of the woodwork. One thing that has come up (by the hand of Raph Koster, no less) is that the classless, freeform non-grind world that I pontificate was tried with Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. And yes, WoW ate their lunches and kicked sand in their faces.
I’m still trying to decide whether the desire for such freedom is a cyclic thing, with the public swinging between railroading grindy games and freeform sandbox games… or whether, as Saylah intimates, that maybe the market at large really does want the sort of vapid experience that the DIKU lineage offers, and those of us who want something a bit more interesting are forever consigned to the niches.
Maybe there’s a “DIKU veteran” old folks’ home that I should enroll in. You know, play a few rounds of Rook, chat for a while, get my Sesquicentennial cupcake in a cup. *shrug*
@Tesh
As much as we appreciate your music, I’m afraid New Age isn’t quite the style that we’re going for at Channel Massive.
“…that maybe the market at large really does want the sort of vapid experience that the DIKU lineage offers…”
You can partially blame Blizzard and Sony for that. There are millions of Everquest/WoW players out there who have never experienced anything outside of their design and can’t comprehend what anything else would be like.
Alas, no use of my music. I’ll have to settle for commentary.
Believe you me, I blame Sony and Blizzard for a lot of things.
So how do we get people interested in new designs? What does it take to kick people out of their comfort zone, and hopefully, into something better? I blather a lot on my blog about ways to make the game genre better, but how do we *sell* that to people who “can’t comprehend” something different?
MMO development is prohibitively expensive, and investors are allergic to innovation. A smaller scoped indie title, say a Gatheryn or hypothetical Harvest Moon Online, might be just the ticket to get some new ideas percolating around, but who would play it? The hardcore won’t touch a non-AAA title (and heaven help you if you’re not a subscription game), and the casual player isn’t an early adopter. Without that critical mass of early enthusiastic players (and the social network effect), an expensive beast like an MMO will wither and die.
I dunno. Know anyone with a PhD in Quantum Physics? Maybe we could invent a time machine. Or something like this device. Then we could go back and stop Blizzard from making World of Warcraft. That might do the trick.
Of course, Mark and a few million other people might TRY to stop us, but it’s for the betterment of MMOkind.
I think Mike is “our” guy inside WoW. I have a feeling he is just grinding his toons just to find a flaw in the system and burn it all to the ground